Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick downplayed three in-person encounters he said he had with Jeffrey Epstein over the years, telling the House Oversight Committee in a closed-door interview last week that his interactions with the convicted late sex offender were “virtually nonexistent,” according to atranscript released Thursday.
The comments came during a voluntary interview Lutnick gave to congressional investigators last week following revelations that his contact with Epstein extended years beyond what he initially claimed in public.
In his lifetime, Lutnick testified that he interacted with Epstein in 2005, 2011 and, perhaps most controversially, ata 2012 lunch on Epstein’s island. Those later contacts, which were revealed in files released by the Justice Department, undercut his prior assertion that he had cut ties with Epstein in 2005, even though Lutnick tried to argue his previous statement still holds. Epstein had pleaded guilty to sex crimes in 2008.
“To the best of my recollection, those were the only three occasions in which I interacted with Epstein in person. Each and every one was meaningless and inconsequential. I had no personal or professional relationship with this individual, despite the proximity of our addresses. Further, at no time during these limited interactions did I witness any conduct, let alone the type of illegal conduct of which we have since become aware,” Lutnick testified.
Even though Lutnick appeared voluntarily, he was reminded at the beginning of the interview that it is a crime to lie to Congress. The release of Lutnick’s transcript by the Republican-led Oversight Committee is part of the panel’s bipartisan investigation into Epstein, his orbit and how the Justice Department handled the allegations of sexual abuse against him.
The transcript offered one of Lutnick’s most robust accounts to date of how he met and dealt with Epstein over the years, but it is unlikely to satisfy critics who have accused him of covering up ties to the convicted sex offender. After his testimony last week, Democrats on the committeesaid he still had more to explain, and two suggested he should resign if he couldn’t provide a more thorough explanation of his and Epstein’s interactions.
A Commerce spokesperson said the secretary answered “nearly 400 questions” during his testimony, where “he explained repeatedly that three encounters do not constitute a relationship.”
“The committee adjourned without identifying any evidence to the contrary,” the spokesperson said in a statement.
Lutnick testified that in 2005, he and his wife were invited over to Epstein’s house for coffee shortly after they moved into a neighboring townhouse in New York. During that meeting, Lutnick said Epstein made a “crude” remark that prompted him and his wife to leave, Lutnick said.
“I asked him why he had a massage table in the middle of his house,” Lutnick said, pointing out that it was the best of his recollection from a conversation that occurred 21 years ago. “And I said, ‘How often do you have a massage?’ And he said – my best recollection is, he said, ‘Every day and the right kind of massage.’ And he said it to me, and my wife is standing next to me, and we looked at each other, and we left.”
Lutnick told committee investigators that he interpreted Epstein’s comment to mean that his massages “would become in some form sexual in nature,” and he described Epstein’s comment as “inappropriate,” “gross” and “off-putting.”
Upon leaving Epstein’s townhouse after the 10- to 15-minute encounter, Lutnick said that he and his wife spoke about how he would never create a relationship with Epstein.
“Immediately following that brief initial meeting, as we walked back to our home, my wife and I discussed the encounter and that, given his clear lack of boundaries, I would never establish a personal or professional relationship with him. And that is exactly what I did,” Lutnick testified.
Lutnick had similarly told the New York Post ina podcast interviewin October 2025 that he and his wife decided to cut off contact with Epstein after that meeting in 2005. But the Epstein files released by the Justice Department revealed that Lutnick and Epstein had at least two more interactions after that, including a trip Lutnick took with his family to Epstein’s island. Lutnick testified he wasn’t sure “when or whether” he knew about Epstein’s arrest in 2006.
The secretary backtracked several comments he made during that podcast appearance last fall, including theories that Epstein recorded what took place in his massage room and that he was the “greatest blackmailer ever.”
